April 6, 2017
Even as views on women in the church are changing, the statistics on female pastors are discouraging.
The answer to that question should be the same as for, "What if my son wants to be a pastor?"
First let me say I am not a fundamentalist nor a sexist but a believer who truly believes the Bible is without error. I believe that women can serve in many leadership positions in the church but we should not get caught up in what the culture of today believes. So in answer to what you have said and the question that Bill Elliot gave this is what the Word of God says:
1 Timothy 3 King James Version (KJV)
"This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.A bishop (pastor/elder) then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil."
Also I am not a KJV only but did want to stir up an argument on this. I use many good versions for my study.
I grew up in "the Church of God" denomination, HQ in Anderson, IN. It's a little different from most mainline denominations.... at least, in how I have come to understand it.
Still, when I was 15, the Lord called me to preach. Within the next year or two, I had many dreams and visions of myself preaching in front of varying crowds in buildings I'd never seen. When I asked my "pastor back home" for advice, he would always respond, "We'll worry about that when the time comes."
He was over 70, pastor of two churches, and doing a weekly radio broadcast. I wanted an apprenticeship or a little advice... or maybe I wanted him to be for me what Paul was for Timothy.... but, he only saw me (and other younger ministers) as trying to take over what God gave him. I saw this as maniacal, but I refuse to be mad or hold a grudge. I do wonder how much easier life might be if he'd helped me more, but I just moved on with my life. No need crying over spilled milk, right?
I graduated high school, went to college, and with the Lord's help, I did many ministry-type things during my scenic route through undergrad and my financially stifled time in grad school. Many peers and classmates considered me their pastor on campus.... I even tried to have services in the chapel on campus, only to find out that the by-laws has a no competition clause... even though I was not concerned with competition... I wanted to lead Bible studies with my classmates who were discontented with and disconnected from the local churches.
After I graduated, I moved back home. My denomination's local region was in flux, so they couldn't ordain me.
Since then, I've moved to Greensboro and bounced around between a few churches. But, overall, what the Lord is telling me is to plant an interdenominational church for His glory. My wife and I plan to move forward with the Lighthouse in Greensboro this fall!
So, I said all that to say: If the Lord is telling someone, male or female, to plant a church or be in senior leadership of an existing church or whatever, then opposition or setbacks will come just like Jesus said in John 16: 25-33. In light of that, stay the course! Let the Lord build your network! When it gets rough, remember Jesus' words in Matthew 11: 28-30 and John 10: 9-10... as you persevere through life, remember Paul's words in Hebrews 11-12... Run the good race! Fight the good fight! Don't let human misunderstanding of God's calling on your life snuff out your light!
Also, remember that some people are in your life for a reason, a season, or a lifetime....
Pray for discernment to know which.... because you don't want to give major time to a minor character.
I hope my experiences help you encourage your daughter, Tracey Bianchi.
I hope my experiences help you encourage your son, Bill Elliott.
God bless you all.
This thread of sharing and the more positive results for women in ministry is encouraging. I tend, however, to not focus on statistics - women still aren't this or that in percentages to men. My focus is where God wants me and God well understands the bias today that exists between the genders so even if it is difficult sometimes, I have to trust that God is not out of the loop for women! Ministry is a call, not a gender issue. The gender issue part is sinful humans, so rather than be glum about the less percentage for women, let's rejoice that God has the right people, man or woman, in the right place and God will continue to call all of us to ministry using the talents he has given us. As a woman pastor, one thing I do find interesting and troubling, with men at the helm of the pulpit we still have mostly women in teaching/music, etc. With a women as leader, we too often see churches totally led by women, it's hard to find a male on the council, deacon, elder, etc. That, to me is a caution as well. Balance is hard, isn't it? Yet, to every man and woman out there, I say if God is calling you - DO IT! Discern the calling so it is God's and not your own for any dominance or other reason (like our family wants to raise a pastor). When God calls and we answer, it is quite a wonderful adventure, albet filled with opinions of others that hit like darts--but then again, think of the disciples, the women who started churches along-side Paul, etc.--it was never easy for anyone, but the rewards are indeed eternal.
The Bible says GOD calls and GOD ordains. I don't know why men thought they could do a better job than GOD when it comes to ordaining ministers. As far as women pastors or preachers again GOD calls and GOD ordains. Mary Magdalene was I believe a great evangelist and was a leader of the Church Jesus started.
The answer to the issue of whether women can be pastors is a no-brainer. If one believes that God's word is true and inerrant, then one must honor its revelations at 1 Timothy 2:11-12 (KJV):
"11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." The biblical prohibition of women pastors can also be found at 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 (KJV): "34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. 35 And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."
The problem is the world wants everyone to be the same and we're not. Men are different from women for a reason - thank God for the difference! 1 Cor 12 and Romans 12 both teach of how we all have a purpose, what we need to do is be thankful that God has given us gifts and talents and we all have a place in the Body of Christ.
Regardless of one's views on the issue, I would have serious reservations about someone who is both so socially and Biblically naive as to not know most churches have "a problem" with female pastors.
Any straightforward reading of Paul would disallow female pastors, so to support the idea, one has to either have a theological framework constructed to re-interpret those passages, or simply be unfamiliar with much of the New Testament. "Having no idea" strongly suggests the latter.
I see an interesting point in Pastor Cyndy's words. It's something I've suspected, but never really adequate words. I don't think that God (or Paul who wrote most of the New Testament) outlawed women pastors as though women were incapable. I think the sentiment of apprehension for women to rule over men is evident in what you've written.
I don't know if it is just so simple as "God created man first and then created women from the man's rib!" Or, is it that men have some kind of subconscious dissension against women in leadership.... Or, it could be cultural as in some cultures, the man takes the woman's last name at marriage...
I see so many variables.... I think we can only obey the calling God gives us, individually.... And collaborate when we can, but press on alone, if need be.... Kinda like Matthew 10... But, also remembering that we sometimes plant Kingdom seeds on rocky soul, which will bear no fruit...
I pray this is a blessing!
1 Timothy 2:11-14
"Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness.
I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.
For Adam was formed first, then Eve
and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor."
The Bible is clear that women are to be submissive in their marriages (Ephesians 5, 1 Peter 3) and submissive in the church as well. 1 Peter 3 and 2 Timothy 3 as well as the above passage say that women are "weaker" not just physically, but spiritually; being more easily led astray. Therefore, we women are not fit to be spiritual leaders over men. We are to teach other women (Titus 2) and children, but encouraging women to become pastors must ignore these passages I have shared with you.
I pray you will consider what God's word says on this.
I am sorry, but I must unsubscribe from your blog because I cannot trust that you let Holy Scripture be your guide in all matters.
There is no biblical justification for women in positions of leadership in the church; in fact it is just the opposite. Scriptures -- which are mot of men but are breathed out by God -- say clearly in multiple passages to multiple groups of people that women are not to be in authority over men in the church, or the home for that matter.
She will never be a pastor, because any church that accepts a female pastor does not accept scripture as the word of God and is therefore not a church.
Some people have this idea that complementarianism is a bad thing,that everything should be completely equal. But God didn't create men and women to be equals. He created us to fulfill specific roles. That doesn't mean one is greater or lesser than the other. Just different.
Like the commenter above, I will be unsubscribing from this newsletter, because clearly you don't care enough to check what you publish or you actually agree with him. Either way, I won't support it by reading any further
In Reply to Jamie Arruda (comment #30277)
Thanks for these passages.
I'm a believe that God can and will! Choose anyone he wants to lead a church or Anthony else all these verses from Paul of course! Are at the least laughable to me look at Joyce Meyers, now she has to my knowledge never stated she's a pastor, priest, or obviously a male!!! Haha anyways she's been actively preaching Gods words from the bible from about 1983 so, I've always been a huge follower of hers! zGod can and will use anybody he wants to, Paul although a very great apostle! Was great at writing, obviously didn't care for females much!! I see that as a big mistake but, I didn't write much of bible either so, what females should just stay barefoot @ pregnant well sorry guys! I don't do either, as I'm sure many women feel the same!!! I think Paul's words were more his opinion, not Gods opinion!!! Buff said! Women are smarter, better, I could go on all day ! But won't! Please women can't do what! Nothing!as far as I'm concerned!!! Lori leigh
I opened this article eagerly looking for a Biblically based position arguing for why women should be in a pastoral position. I have heard this before as being a Biblical position, and there is confusion about the subject, particularly since it seems to us like women are capable of doing exactly every job men are--after all, teaching is a Spiritual gift, right? And there are women who were prophets, right? And this is a good thing to study! But this article doesn't teach any of this; it is only a personal anecdote pushing for women to be pastors based on the author's opinion with practically no Scripture to base it upon. Romans 12 is given, sure, but to base an entire viewpoint on a chapter that doesn't directly relate to the subject is dangerous
The fact is, a simple understanding of Scripture is that husbands lead their households, and men lead the Church; this is based upon Eph. 5, 1 Peter 3, 1 Tim. 2-3, 1 Cor. 14, and Titus 2, which each address leadership issues of the husband-wife relationship or the Church. If a man is to lead his household, but his wife leads Him as pastor, won't there be confusion? And doesn't Paul explain explicitly not only how men, not women, should be prepared for Church leadership, but that women should not be in Church leadership? Yes, perhaps there is something I am missing on a simple read through that studying Scripture deeper would reveal, but this article doesn't do that, nor does it even give simple explanations of Scripture. Instead, it's personal anecdote, based upon nothing but the author's opinion, which is barely explained; it's as if we should all agree simply because the author said so. This is not how to teach the Bible, but it is how to push propaganda. I am very disappointed.
I agree, Lori Leigh, that God can use anyone He sees fit, especially if they're willing to study the Bible and exegete it. That's why I intend to study these verses in the original Hebrew and Greek to see if there are any subtleties that we might be missing.
I don't think that women are simply here to be barefoot and pregnant. Still, I can't speak for others.
Feel free to join in the study at http://gntstudy.webs.com/
I agree with Jack that "Some people have this idea that complementarianism is a bad thing,that everything should be completely equal. But God didn’t create men and women to be equals. He created us to fulfill specific roles. That doesn’t mean one is greater or lesser than the other. Just different."
I think that the rhetoric that "women should only be barefoot and pregnant" is a sarcastic oversimplification of what we're saying here. We must follow the Word (the Bible, the scriptures).... If there is any misunderstanding or confusion, then let us not come for one another's proverbial throats. Instead, let us peacefully discuss the Word.
Glad I could help.Just a humble slave doing her duty.(Luke 17:10)
For those who feel 'the bible clearly says' that women are not to be pastors, it would appear that it is not quite so clear.
The bible prohibits female pastors (as others have already commented). However, this is NOT a matter of capability. There are many women out there that are capable, but there's a standard - spiritual picture - that God communicates in this prohibition.
In part, it hearkens back to creation and marriage. The woman as helpmeet to the man. The man as leader, but not in a domineering sense, but as one who would sacrifice himself for the woman as Christ sacrificed himself for the church.
The church is too remind the world of this biblical picture. If the church doesn't, who will?
The bible is NOT saying that women can't be leaders in the church. Preaching is not the only leadership position/opportunity in a church. And the bible is NOT saying that women can't also be great leaders with great authority outside of church.
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