March 9, 2009
Usually when something like this happens, a lot of people kind of interpret the song to be about a girl / guy. You know, that kind of "worship of the lover" as a way of describing the feelings they have for them.But in this case, I agree, it is really hard to take the meaning of the song to be anything other than directed towards the Almighty. (I suppose it COULD be interpreted as to a lover, but at a stretch...) Anyway, very cool lyrics.
Hi,I find that a lot of people, don't care much about what is being said in songs. They simply focus on the beats not realizing that the lyrics are deeply affecting them. At least this time, folks were being exposed to worship unto God instead of unknowingly worshiping satan.
when i was in high school, my friends and i listened to U2 a lot, knowing that they were very much vocal about their christian faith. they, particularly bono, have been known to use their music to voice out various political/social causes. i believe that they are a very good example of christians living out their faith in their particular vocation. they are not preachy but they also acknowledge the Lord in very overt ways in their music and performances. which is more than i can say for most christians. they have never claimed to be pure or holy or claimed to be "anointed". but bono is a shining example of a person who never had to write a book about being and 'influencer" or being "purpose - driven", but just plain did something to help and make an impact on the world. and it seems he and the rest of U2 have been inspired by their "Magnificent" Lord. by the way...an early U2 song called "40" is their own musical version of Psalm 40. it is a great song. hope you listen to it! have a blessed day!
One big thing is missing though. Christ was not glorified. He wasn't even mentioned. Its not some generic god that makes ya feel good that people don't like. It is Christ they have issue with.
Here is my take...for what it is worth. I know that U2 is "cool" for the emergent group of churches around the country. I have heard many of their songs in these type of settings. So, why can U2 get away with being on Letterman or the Grammys singing "Worship" music but if it were Chris Tomlin, he wouldn't even have the chance to perform? The reason is U2 as a band is less than nominally Christian. If they were never regarded as Christians at all, I would be rejoicing that this band was communicating Godly Truth to the masses. But, they (Bono) claim Christ as his savior, therefore we have to judge him by his actions and words. U2 is one of the most humanitarian groups in the world, they have raised 100s of millions of dollars for impoverished people around the world. Seems Christ-like, right? (Matthew 25) U2 is also one of the big reasons that the FCC has instituted the time delay for live TV because of their F-bomb laden speech at the Grammy's a few years ago, this is before they boycotted the Grammy's. So Why does society accept them? I believe it is because they look and act just like them. They have a God that they claim to believe in on Sunday morning, but Friday night...all bets are off.
They don't "get away with it," I think people genuinely respect U2 (mostly Bono) for what they (mostly Bono) attempts to be in this world - so they let him express why he does it.What I can't believe is why Evangelicals think that whining, moaning, and being generally obnoxious in the world is "faithful."
That is simply a reversal of what the King James committee did to Song of Solomon, which was in fact Solomon singing about his woman, and some verses, perhaps her singing about him. It took a real stretch to turn erotic poetry into "Christ's love for the church." But "Magnificent" doesn't seem to have ambiguity. It is about something more magnificent than a girl or guy.
Remember some would be surprised that Christians here have no problem saying, "Bloody" and that the "F-bomb" is not considered a curse word in parts of the world. So for it to come out as offensive is a U.S. issue.
What's most telling about the U2 song 40 is the Scripture that's left out. The real Psalm 40 goes on to say:I proclaim righteousness in the great assembly; I do not seal my lips, as you know, O LORD.I do not hide your righteousness in my heart; I speak of your faithfulness and salvation. I do not conceal your love and your truth from the great assembly.
I agree completely. Good point.
I think you meant to respond to "the randy," but I agree with you. The F-bomb is course language not because it has some intrinsically evil value, but because our society says that it's course and vulgar language. It simply doesn't have the same emotive force in other parts of the world - and one day the F-Bomb might be perfectly acceptable in this culture (I don't see it happening, but it COULD).I think a lot of people get confused at this point, our "swear words" (not really swears, but that's another discussion) are that because our culture assigns them that value, and therefor we avoid coarse language because of NT prohibitions - but the words themselves are just words, and their usage changes over time.
hi gavin,Â very much appreciate your response.Â Â one of the positive things about U2 is that somehow they give God and His Word some measure of exposure to an audience that are quite unfamiliar to this sort of thing.Â i am not holding them up to a position for too much admiration, believe only our Lord deserves that, but i think we can learn a thing or two from them regarding displaying our principles to a lost world.Â and as you pointed in the 40th Psalm, in some ways, Bono and the rest of U2 have not "sealed their lips".Â singing in Letterman's show is a "great assembly" and have declared who really is "Magnificent".Â have a blessed day.Â in Christ's love,Â alvin
i get your point.... imagine the impact we christians would have if we "attempted" more efforts for the cause of the Kingdom. then perhaps we would "get away with it" more in our expressions for our Magnificent God.
Any professing Christian who still clings to the U2 delusion needs to read Watchman Nee.After all, Bono mentioned Watchman Nee in at least two separate interviews -- Mother Jones in 1989 and Bono On Bono in 2005.Try Googling the book title, Love Not The World, and reading just the first chapter, The Mind Behind The System. It's all online.Note what Nee says there, 70 years ago, about "music and the arts". Then fast-forward to 1987, recalling Bono's lyric from In God's Country: "I stand with the sons of Cain."
This is what I'm saying...
I think U2 (mainly bono)falls into a small catagory of believing musicians such as collective soul, switchfoot, kansas, and a few others who are not "christian rock bands" but mearly christians who have a band .their lyrics may not be profoundly christian but has a message that is not hard to find. as a life long musician and pastor I have to screen what i listen to and i have found these few bands to be of worth. I believe god calls some to lift up his people with strong christian music but calls others to witness to the world with music that may appeal to a more secular audience.To find more bands like these do a search on crossover bands.
thank you so much for the tip on watchman nee.. have browsed through his book just now. and its insights are quite wonderful. i will get back to you for more interesting discussions. and hope our conversations will become a positive force against the growing ferocious battle vs our real enemy...the prince of the world. The Lord Jesus lives and all authority is with Him. I stand with Him, as i stand with you gavin...child of the King.have a blessed day!
If you keep going with that book, Love Not The World, in Chapter 7 there's a remarkable parallel with Rick Warren's "three-legged stool". Nee warns of "this threefold basis of politics, religion and commerce". Warren urges "business, government and churches" to work together.Are Warren and Bono trying to herd us into a ONE world religion? (See one.org/onesabbath) Don't forget that Jesus -- only Jesus -- is the way, the truth and the life.
Have any of you been U2 fans for very long? Have any of you listened to their mid 80's album "War"? On "Sunday Bloody Sunday" they have the lyric The real battle yet begun (sunday, bloody sunday)To claim the victory jesus won (sunday, bloody sunday)At the same time, their first album, that I'm aware of "Boy" was put out when they were pretty much just boys. They have worked out their lives and faith on the world stage. I was pretty exasperated at them in the 90's when they went through their cynical stage, (cussing and drinking beer at the Grammy's) but it seems they have met their demons and slayed them. I like Alvin's comments very much. They aren't perfect, have not claimed to be perfect, but are sure living out some pretty intense commitments to cry out for the poor and needy in our world. There is a pretty good biblical precedent for listening to the cry of the needy.I guess I will leave "judgement" to God as only he can know their hearts. If the worst thing we can come up with against U2 and it's members is immaturity and coarse language, then as superstars go, they are dealing with it pretty well.I think my non-superstar resume of mistakes is worse, and my temptations have doubtlessly been far less than the ones they have had to work through. Thank goodness for grace. Not cheap, not easy, but definitely extended to us by Jesus. Quite costly actually, but what a gift. I think I have enough left over from what Jesus gave me to give a little to U2, and actually a lot of other people who could use some too.Peace.
i am thorougly enjoying the book brother.Â and i appreciate your watchfulness to the times.Â indeed, we christians who have been given the responsibility to shine the light of God's truth must ever be alert.Â i also believe that given U2 and Rick Warren's influence on the mainstream, we should take advantage of this by engaging not just ourselves and our circle of christian friends but also to others in the world who have become curious about what christianity is and who really is the way, the truth and the life.Â as John Stott said, we must practice the art of double listening in order for us to become effective as a counterculture.Â we must go on standing up for the truth and set apart ourselves from the posers, but also we must also be "dispensers of grace" in this lost world.Â for i firmly believe that not a square inch of this earth is found where Jesus the Lord does not cry "Mine!".
and it seems that you are a man with a wealth of knowledge.Â and i cannot disagree with you re Jesus being the Way, the Truth and the Life.Â though your "conspiracy theory" re rick warren and bono is too "x-files" for me.Â God bless you !
it'n nice to have a band as cool as U2 to actually sing about God...but the issue remains:they're not all together Christian in the way they present theselves. i mean, there's no consistency. i'm not a U2 fan but i do love their music. i'm just a little confused with how they act. like the F-bomb thing. come on guys, stop being all smart in defending that. the F word is the F word, and considering it as just another expression or a normal part of some culture's language is just not...right. another is that their songs have not been consistently Christ-like in its message. i forgot the title of that song but they did one for a batman movie. that song was anything BUT christian. if they sing Christian in one song and so-not-Christian in the other, what does that make them? Christians for comfort? im not dissing them...i'm just really not sure if i should take the band as genuinely living and singing in a Christian way. (another axample is the band Flyleaf)
Christians who curse?!i don't know, man. it's like a Christian who commits adultery and gets away with it. REALLY. no matter how 'liberal', no matter how much of a free-thinker a Christian is, its not an excuse to use such words. REALLY, man. REALLY. consider it.there are no grey areas in Christianity."christians" who have no problem using or hearing the F word has some issues. big issues.
Think about it a little more. A man who dubbed himself "lord of lords" -- two or three days before Palm Sunday in 2007 -- has been singing for 25 years about a BATTLE, to CLAIM, the victory Jesus won.Also, at some point, the Sunday Bloody Sunday lyric morphed from "the real battle yet begun" to the current version, "the real battle just begun".I much prefer this song, free of any ambiguity:O victory in Jesus,My Savior, forever.He sought me and bought meWith His redeeming blood;He loved me ere I knew HimAnd all my love is due Him,He plunged me to victory,Beneath the cleansing flood.
here in the philippines the word cholera is a big curse word.... so is the F- word but the S is not that much of a curse word here.. the point is these are mainly words used to curse... you might wanna use "fool, "stupid", "damn", all them words in the dictionary, and used them as curse, then it still is bad..the only word i dont want people using around in vain is the name Jesus and God before the "damn". Because this is clearly prohibited in the scripture, not to use God's name in vain....And using God's name in vain is not just using it as curse but also using it as a mindless expression like "oh my God" and even saying Praise God (as it is common here) without even knowing what it means...And by the way here in the philippines an overt christian lyrics won't matter cause even Casting Crowns' Who Am I went to number 1 on mainstream radio here late 2008 (and that song is like 5 years old already), overt christian local bands here like Still, Fervent, Klynt, Kitchie Nadal, The Difficult Stranger, and Andy Calope are all accepted in the mainstream....
I am so with you alvin_tsf!
thanks thomas!Â have a blessed day.Â all glory to our Magnificent God
hi michael. i'm also from the philippines. and your point regarding overt christian bands here is one that i have not thought of or taken for granted. and i think that the fact that they do not matter to the general audience is a good thing. because it opens a lot of doors for dialogue for faith without drawing "battle" lines. and i think this is the primary mission of christians...to be the light of the world. not to blind them with our devastating knowledge of the bible and understanding of our "heavenly selves" but to shine via the good deeds that we are constrained to do because of Jesus' love and grace in our lives.
hi gavin...i am deeply impressed with you. mainly because you seem to know more of u2 than i do, a "professing" fan. and i am amazed how you have taken the time to exegete bono which i have not really taken the time to do. for the sake of unity in the Body...i suggest we all just listen to "under the radar". their tunes are pretty good and their lyrics might not cause too much division among us. how about it bro?
hi thomas, thanks for your comments. appreciate it. further to your thoughts... i dont think anyone of us is at a position the persona spiritual journey of U2 for no one can really know what's goin on in Bono, the Edge, Adam Clayton or Larry Mullen's hearts. but i draw inspiration from them because they are in an industry that is filled with so much darkness and the prince of the world's influence is undeniable, and yet they proclaim and acknowledge God as "Magnificent" and the role the Sovereign Lord plays in the political scheme of things. and their struggles with their beliefs vs. what they see in the world is what i relate most. they are not afraid to appear as weak and confused in a global stage. and bono's work vs poverty and the way he bugs world leaders is i think undeniably good. hoping one day we'll get to talk face to face and listen to some U2 tunes and other bands...i like audio adrenaline too! have a blessed day!
Hello everyone may the peace of god fine all. I would like to say that if it be about god then so it be it but god said if any man take away from my word he shall have his reward. All you hear is maginficent who them because in the song they don't mention the word god and they took out the verses that mention god . God said beware of the sheep that comes in wool clothing for it is ot of him. so who taking the credit the band or are they trying to give the credit to god from the time i started reading the article it was something in my sprit that told me something was not right no disrespect this is vain to me, I don't play with god or hide behind the word to get attention nor should any of us . An honestly I'am not being negative I'am just trying to get to the point and trying to understand but i do not see anything poistive that is in this exspecially for some one who no not of god. are we as christian trying to win souls to christ or mislead or losing them and leading them straight to hell. Amen
Wow, Michael! How insightful! I wonder what else you might have to say...???Soli Deo Gloria! Amen.
Hello, everyone.Well, please reflect on these verses:Matthew 13:10-1710The disciples came to him and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?" 11He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 13This is why I speak to them in parables: "Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. 14In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: " 'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. 15For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.'[a] 16But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it. And then, everyone, please reflect on the lyrics to the song "Magnificent" by U2. Observe how they express truths that the chosen can hear.And then, consider how overtly religious, yea biblical and Christian, are the lyrics to this song: "I try to sing this songI, I try to stand upBut I can't find my feet.I, I try to speak upBut only in you I'm complete.GloriaIn te domineGloriaExultateGloriaGloriaOh, Lord, loosen my lips.I try to sing this songI, I try to get inBut I can't find the doorThe door is openYou're standing there, you let me in.GloriaIn te domineGloriaExultateOh, Lord, if I had anything, anything at allI'd give it to you.GloriaIn te domineGloriaGloria"--"Gloria", October, U2Amen.After reading all of this, consider for yourselves how "Christian" U2 is, at least how "Christian" Bono is, for he writes the lyrics.God bless.MichaelStill not convinced, well here are some sources for reference:http://www.u2.com/discography/...http://www.u2faqs.com/songs/#2
"Is anyone else amazed at what U2 can get away with?"Think, Christian!Why was there an upside-down cross on the artwork for Window In The Skies? (See Marienkirche upturned cross.) Why did the series of covers for Vanity Fair's July 2007 issue -- edited by Bono -- mimic Signorelli's Deeds of the Antichrist? (See Signorelli Antichrist Britannica.)Sunday Bloody Sunday was a nod to Black Sabbath's Sabbath Bloody Sabbath. With Or Without You was a sly reference to Within You Without You from The Beatles' satanic Sgt Pepper album. Does that not explain why Bono and Paul McCartney sang Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band at Live8?Why did U2 collaborators Green Day previously release an album called Nimrod? (See Nimrod Antichrist.)What do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? (2 Corinthians 6:14-15)Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them (Ephesians 5:11).You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord's table and the table of demons (1 Corinthians 10:21).
Gavin,Seriously? Really? Sunday Bloody Sunday on the U2 album War is not a reference to a Black Sabbath Song, it is a reference to an incident where British soldiers shot civil rights protesters. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B...There is so much overt evil in the world. So much injustice. You remind me of the people who used to play records backward in the 70's and hear satanic messages. I was amazed that people needed more proof of hedonism and objectification than the actual lyrics themselves. If you are implying that U2, either whole or as individuals are demonic then I think you are going way too far. If you can tell a tree by its fruit, then look at their fruit. It's good stuff. Look at dozens of other performers and their lyrics and lives are a shambles. You are using a net so fine that you will strain out everything.I will continue to pray that I see clearly and am not deceived. I know that I have the capacity to get it wrong.Peace.
gavin, that's exactly my point. it so sad that there are a lot of self-professed Christians who are living in too much compromise with the world. (im sorry for dwelling in this subject) but if Christians can cuss all they want since Ã¯t's just another word", "just a form of expression", then what makes us different from unbelievers? does it show a transformed life?let's just all do our best to be Christ to others and pray that His light will shine more...
You're quite right, of course, that on the surface Sunday Bloody Sunday is about violence in Northern Ireland.But I still say that to understand who Bono is you need to read his lyrics in the context of Watchman Nee -- a Chinese preacher cited by Bono in 1989 and 2005."The real battle just begun. To claim the victory Jesus won."That lyric needs to be exposed to the light of these words from Watchman Nee, from the book Sit Walk Stand:"Today we war against Satan only to maintain and consolidate the victory which He [the Lord Jesus] has already gained [through the Cross]. By the resurrection God proclaimed His Son Victor over the whole realm of darkness, and the ground Christ won He has given to us. We do not need to fight to obtain it. We only need to hold it against all challengers."So then, there is no "battle" to "claim" the victory Jesus won. Not unless Sunday Bloody Sunday is the song of a would-be usurper.
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